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	<title>Comments on: View from the Outside In</title>
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	<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/</link>
	<description>Online Learning for Trade Associations</description>
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		<title>By: E-learning and Learning 2.0 Quick Hits</title>
		<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-650</link>
		<dc:creator>E-learning and Learning 2.0 Quick Hits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-650</guid>
		<description>[...] out Ellen Behrens’ commentary on the ASAE conference on her aLearning [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out Ellen Behrens’ commentary on the ASAE conference on her aLearning [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LMS Selection Resource</title>
		<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-649</link>
		<dc:creator>LMS Selection Resource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-649</guid>
		<description>[...] leads to a desire for yet more features. As I have commented before, and most recently on Ellen Behren’s blog, I think the average RFP process contributes to this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] leads to a desire for yet more features. As I have commented before, and most recently on Ellen Behren’s blog, I think the average RFP process contributes to this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: More on the Vendor-Client Gap &#171; aLearning Blog</title>
		<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>More on the Vendor-Client Gap &#171; aLearning Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] last week off-line, I&#8217;ve decided to spend a little more time with a statement I made in my &#8220;View from the Outside In&#8221; entry, posted as an observation of the recent eLearning Conference hosted by ASAE and The Center:  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] last week off-line, I&#8217;ve decided to spend a little more time with a statement I made in my &#8220;View from the Outside In&#8221; entry, posted as an observation of the recent eLearning Conference hosted by ASAE and The Center:  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen</title>
		<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jeff -- Thanks for responding.  Your points are well taken.

Clearly there&#039;s a terrific need for more programs like this one, especially from ASAE and The Center.  What&#039;s curious to me is that their own benchmarking data shows more and more associations will be offering elearning, yet it still holds a low spot on the ASAE totem pole. If they&#039;re not careful, someone will step in to fill it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8212; Thanks for responding.  Your points are well taken.</p>
<p>Clearly there&#8217;s a terrific need for more programs like this one, especially from ASAE and The Center.  What&#8217;s curious to me is that their own benchmarking data shows more and more associations will be offering elearning, yet it still holds a low spot on the ASAE totem pole. If they&#8217;re not careful, someone will step in to fill it!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Cobb</title>
		<link>http://alearning.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/view-from-the-outside-in/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Cobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ellen--Thanks for this great follow up to the ASAE/Center e-learning conference. I agree with your observations, though I&#039;d like to attempt to add some nuance to your comment about &quot;a disconnect between vendors and clients&quot; (with the disclaimer that I fall in the vendor camp). I think this is true to a certain extent, but I also think that some of the other factors that you point out contribute to a culture that fosters this disconnect. 

The fact that associations &quot;are still struggling with the best ways to get buy-in from leadership,&quot; for instance, leads to sourcing and purchase situations where e-learning is not really considered a priority or an integral part of the association&#039;s strategy. It is a project or a one-off initiative, and it gets treated as such by leadership. Vendors, more often than not, are just a seller on the other side of an RFP, rather than participants in a strategic conversation. There are bound to be disconnects when this is the level of communication that occurs. 

I think RFP processes themselves, which are so pervasive in the association world, also tend to drive the conversation quickly to features and budget and away from strategy and design. I&#039;ve gotten any number of very long RFPs for an LMS, for instance, from organizations that arguably do not need an LMS as part of their strategy at all--or at the very least need something much simpler than what they envision.

Vendors are a significant part of the problem (and can be part of the solution) in this mix partly because they will so rarely say no to any RFP, even a misguided one.  Contributing to this problem is the fact that there are really relatively few vendors in the association space who, if they come primarily from the e-learning world, have take the time to understand associations, or conversely, if they come primarily from the association world, have taken the time to truly understand e-learning.

I have criticized ASAE before for not doing enough to help associations understand and embrace e-learning, which I think has the potential to be an incredible strategic asset for it members. I think the recent conference, however, was a very strong effort by ASAE towards providing leadership. I agree that ASAE and the Center did a great job pulling it together, and I hope that it represents a solid step towards addressing the issues you have raised above, and as part of that, facilitating a more meaningful conversation between vendors and associations.  –Jeff

(P.S.—Thanks also for the mention of Mission to Learn!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellen&#8211;Thanks for this great follow up to the ASAE/Center e-learning conference. I agree with your observations, though I&#8217;d like to attempt to add some nuance to your comment about &#8220;a disconnect between vendors and clients&#8221; (with the disclaimer that I fall in the vendor camp). I think this is true to a certain extent, but I also think that some of the other factors that you point out contribute to a culture that fosters this disconnect. </p>
<p>The fact that associations &#8220;are still struggling with the best ways to get buy-in from leadership,&#8221; for instance, leads to sourcing and purchase situations where e-learning is not really considered a priority or an integral part of the association&#8217;s strategy. It is a project or a one-off initiative, and it gets treated as such by leadership. Vendors, more often than not, are just a seller on the other side of an RFP, rather than participants in a strategic conversation. There are bound to be disconnects when this is the level of communication that occurs. </p>
<p>I think RFP processes themselves, which are so pervasive in the association world, also tend to drive the conversation quickly to features and budget and away from strategy and design. I&#8217;ve gotten any number of very long RFPs for an LMS, for instance, from organizations that arguably do not need an LMS as part of their strategy at all&#8211;or at the very least need something much simpler than what they envision.</p>
<p>Vendors are a significant part of the problem (and can be part of the solution) in this mix partly because they will so rarely say no to any RFP, even a misguided one.  Contributing to this problem is the fact that there are really relatively few vendors in the association space who, if they come primarily from the e-learning world, have take the time to understand associations, or conversely, if they come primarily from the association world, have taken the time to truly understand e-learning.</p>
<p>I have criticized ASAE before for not doing enough to help associations understand and embrace e-learning, which I think has the potential to be an incredible strategic asset for it members. I think the recent conference, however, was a very strong effort by ASAE towards providing leadership. I agree that ASAE and the Center did a great job pulling it together, and I hope that it represents a solid step towards addressing the issues you have raised above, and as part of that, facilitating a more meaningful conversation between vendors and associations.  –Jeff</p>
<p>(P.S.—Thanks also for the mention of Mission to Learn!)</p>
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